were in the range of 7 1/2% on average the first four quarters of '83 and it extended through bill clinton. we are going to lose a lot. you know, these people are a precious natural resource. you can't get back a year of unemployment for a person. it's a tragic loss of a perishable asset. >> and that downward negative growth, meaning not growth in the fourth quarter, a lot of folks say. >> it's a decline. >> with the defense spending being down, we know that sequestration is looming. that is going to cut defense spending, like it or not, if it's not resolved. what is your take on sequestration and the economy? >> i mean, sequestration is also -- lards causing it to decline in the fourth quarter. but without sequestration, have you very slow growth. you had a lot of people shift income into 2012 out of 2013, which tended to offset the sequestration. but have you a serious long-term problem. i hope they don't go through with the sequestration. i hope they don't do. it i hope an agreement comes on. i am not hopeful, but i hope it does happen. >> we hope they are learning to you, dr. art laffe